The Value of Others
Guys, y'all absolutely have to read this whole entire book. It's academic and uses elevated vocabulary, but it's a great exploration into what the fuck is going on, and what you can do to solve your problems.
It is a little excessive on a few long running metaphors, but they accurately serve to explain the concepts.
If you've finished I'd love to discuss it with you.
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16 comments
• Sep '24
I got the e book and read the last chapter on get go (title was too good to ignore) but I will be reading it at some point.
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... Then feel free to engage about the content of the book when you've read it.
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• Sep '24
Hey, I started reading this a few days ago!
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• Sep '24
Thanks for the recommend, always looking for new info to devour 💪
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• Oct '24
Any more recommendations??
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• Sep '24
I heard Micheal talking about it… how different it is compared to Rollo's books?
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none of the concepts are going to be new. It's very academic, intent on helping all parties in the sexual marketplace get what they want.
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• Sep '24
I'll be pinging you when I finish it in the next few weeks.
The metaphor of the sailor and passenger in the initial passages can be a little redundant but found it amusing to read.
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• Sep '24 (edited)
I think a failure of the book is he never leaves the metaphors lol. There a few times where I wanted him to extrapolate the metaphors into practical application and it never happens. The book doesn't have practical advice, it just builds a complete awareness of the sexual marketplace
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• Sep '24
Yeah, I would agree with that. I would also question ideas like assortative mating in where people who are in similar intelligence, education, or income come into play.
I believe that value is conditional on which criteria/frame/selection that someone uses. As a basic understanding of the sexual marketplace the metaphors do an excellent job describing what is occurring. It doesn't give you the application approach.
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• Sep '24
Started this a few days ago. Don’t have too much time in these days though
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• Sep '24
Hey I'm following up after I've finished The Value of Others. I don't know entirely what you would like to discuss particularly.
The main point that I have commentary on is in the final chapter when it talks about marriage not as an individual's failure but as a institutional failure. I cannot agree more that institution who use coercion and emotional manipulation cannot continually stand on by themselves.
A callout that I thought was relevant is the idea of what the necessity of others. When there is abundance in your own life there's less of a need for others. It becomes more of a luxury than a requirement. "If you have little, you need other people; if you have a lot, you need other people less" (Chapter 12).
I would love to discuss this further and see other possible perspectives towards The Value of Others.
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• Sep '24 (edited)
Hey man, sorry I'm a week late.
I wanted to dive into "An emotionally compelling lifestyle." Mentioned many times in the book but elaborated on almost not at all in 400 pages.
I think the reality for us, all of us, is that we probably don't have one. There was a post here recently about entrepreneurship. Long story short, most small businesses fail, like 90% of them. But the fantasy of the entrepreneur is that you're a dude in a suit on a private jet with an expensive watch and Moscot sunglasses shaking hands with someone as you "close the deal." You are attractive, fit, and "Making moves."
The fantasy behind this is emotionally compelling. That person goes to parties with other people wearing suits, hot women are at said party, and wouldn't you know you are at the party to close some more deals no doubt. I can see how that fantasy is emotionally compelling.
I have no deals to close. I have no interest in being an entrepreneur. I want to be the best I can at my profession, but I personally have zero interest in taking on the pressures of starting a business and finding customers. I know from watching my dad, and he has gone to zero galas and hasn't really ever had to wear a suit or fly in a private jet.
So we have this emotionally compelling fantasy, but I think that's what it is, just a fantasy.
I'm a nurse, and I work full-time. I imagine many in this group are full-time employees of someone. What can we do to create an emotionally compelling lifestyle?
The reality is we all kind of do the same stuff. The details vary, but the story is the same over and over. We work full-time, maintain fitness, and have time for maybe 1 or 2 hobbies after that we can build great skill in.
What's the most bang for the buck, I guess. Playing videogames isn't sexy, but we all do it. Watching tv isn't sexy, but we all do it. We all do the same things.
How do we make a life that is more emotionally compelling with the limited time we have?
What is a life that someone else wants to be a part of, if we all mostly do the same things?
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• Oct '24
Hey man life happens and I would much prefer an in-depth review. You are bringing up an excellent point of what the actual execution problem of an "emotional compelling lifestyle" that doesn't get enough attention in the book.
*It may seem like I'm ranting on myth, it will reveal itself.
What I would want to start with is the distinction between reality and mythology. As someone who studies architecture I frequently see this in utopian/visionary/futurist architecture where they make an alternative world that we currently live. Le Corbusier (French Architect) created several buildings but also created the idea Ville Radieuse which was a utopian city that was never built. (Abstract idea focused)
This is a very different than an Architect being concerned about how a 4'x8' window is going to fit into a wall. (Concrete idea focused)
What the value of others speaks on is the abstract idea emphasis that people can just have emotionally compelling lives. Doesn't say how or the functional implications of that emotionally compelling lifestyle.
Now, applying this back to the notion of 'the big entrepreneur' or 'baller' where they are sleeping with unlimited women, unlimited money, and balling 24/7. This is completely mythological in its nature but myths don't need to be true or false.
When you observe the real such as your father you see that reality is significantly more complicated and not everyone is interested in being the big kahuna in a business. There are many scientist, engineers, nurses, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals who are simply interested in being the best of that domain. The reality of this makes it not emotionally compelling with the necessary day-to-day struggles that happen. As in your case a nurse you would deal with patients on consistent basis (assumption).
It would not be possible to be at the top of professional hierarchy without the exclusion other hierarchies. (Obvious but worth stating.)
As when it comes to your questions at the bottom I would have few suggestions.
EMOTIONS ARE FEELINGS THAT ARE TRIGGERED BY PHYSICAL OR PSYCHOLOGY CLUES
(Read that over if you don't believe me.)
Myths don't need to be true to make them compelling. Strategically I will highlight two different ways of doing this and that is using time to your advantage.
First, stories about your PAST and the versions of yourselves that they can't see right now. What did your life you like before being a nurse? Whatever that answer is it has an interesting quality and at least teases someone to see the connection to what you are currently doing now.
Second, myths about the FUTURE versions and what you want to project into the future. Is it that you want to own a ranch and live in Wyoming? That answer regardless of what it is will be emotionally compelling to someone. Whatever that future vision is then describe that in vivid detail and people will find that emotionally compelling.
THE PRESENT IS NEVER AS INTERESTING AS THE PAST OR FUTURE
The story that you tell is ONLY what is occurring in the present moment. Not the alternative life that you could be living.
You create a more emotionally compelling by creating more time through alternative myths about yourself. Its not about the objective time you have its the experiences that makes it compelling.
The question "What is a life that someone else wants to be a part of, if we all mostly do the same things?" underlying assumption is that we do the same thing over and over again. An alternative world does not require this level of restriction and requires a certain level of abstraction anyways.
Video games, porn, sports, and the other stuff we do that may not seem sexy is an alternative world that we live in. However, we can make a myth around are own life in who we are, where we come from, and what we want for our future.
What I would conclude with is the idea that day-to-day is boring but that allows someone a space for an alternative world that others want to escape to with to. When you go on a trip (alternative world), go shopping (alternative world), go to sports event (alternative world), great stories (alternative world), movies theaters (alternative world), everything of the unordinary is an alternative world that people are begging to be taken too.
People can't tell the difference between being taken to a physically different world or a psychologically different world. It all feels the same to us.
Much respect for putting up such an in-depth post on The Value of Others and having this dialogue.
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Brett Stringfellow
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The Value of Others
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