Opinion: The CTMU Community isn't ready to argue on high-traffic atheist talk shows

This is my first post here, thank you for inviting me. For those of you who don't know who I am, I run the @CTMUist YouTube account.

This has been a thought of mine I’ve wanted to share for a while. Because I’ve noticed that one of us has called into a YouTube podcast to present the CTMU, I’ve decided to chime in. I’d like to make my stance clear on how CTMUers are to engage with atheist talk shows.

We have a teleological impulse to share the truth. Being CTMU-literate, we’re privy to absolute truth and we know we can ultimately come out on top of any adversarial ideological exchange, if we are careful enough and have done enough studying. Arguing with atheists in parts of the internet that receive a lot of traffic therefore is tempting.

There is a pull factor for calling into to such talk shows; they get a lot of views, so they are effective platforms from which to reach truth-seeking minds. If you run a YouTube channel, then calling in, arguing and posting the exchange to your channel is also a fast way to generate content that both covers the subject matter and, hopefully, paints you in a better light than our adversaries.

As some of you may know, I have called into atheist talk shows.

But I haven’t presented the CTMU in any such call. There is nobody in our community who is ready to attempt this (besides Chris Langan).

What I have done, is present the ideas present in the CTMU as part of an “argument” for God, or brain-independent consciousness (in terms converted to layman’s language, without mentioning CTMU neologisms). See below for links, if you’re interested in hearing the manner in which I did this.

Calling in to these shows and making a good job of it is highly challenging as it is. You have to avoid fumbling your words. You have to avoid having mental blanks. You have to be extremely polite and not get angry when your opponent refuses to see the point (or engages in other forms of irrational denial). Now imagine that on top of that, you’ve got to explain what your CTMU neologism of choice is, to someone who most likely is going to shake their head, come up with some lame excuse not to accept the meaning of the word and say you’re talking word salad. It’s only going to make you flustered and less able to prove whatever point you’ve chosen to make.

There will come a time when we can call into these shows and present tailor-made arguments for the CTMU, but we’re not even close to doing that yet without simply making the CTMU look bad. We need somewhere less public wherein we can hone our delivery.

But why should we care so much about what atheists think? 90% of them are tuning to these shows to hear theists get humiliated. When the theist wins, they don’t like it and regret ever listening to it, and bey at the moderators to ban that caller from calling again.

Because there are those in the crowd who can turn, if they hear reality explained to them in the right words, but they tend to be the quietest of the bunch. Some of us here are former atheists or agnostics.

But imagine the damage a well-meaning CTMUer can cause if they try to present the CTMU to a crowd of skeptics only to get the details wrong. Because the CTMU is absolute truth, this incorrect explanation would itself be incorrect, leaving open the possibility that skeptics will spot this themselves and be able to form a valid point against it. Such people will then think that they’ve “proven the CTMU wrong”, and from that moment on, simply refuse to ever entertain the CTMU ever again.

If you want to spar with atheists on the topic of the CTMU, to get content for your channel, do it on Discord. At least then you have the option to not disseminate it if you realized you said something wrong about the CTMU, presented it incorrectly or simply lost the debate due to being presented with a counterpoint to the CTMU you’d never heard before. If any of that happens while you’re on air on a YouTube call in show, not only do you get humiliated, you make the CTMU look bad.

The reason why we in the CTMU community need such a high level of preparedness before presenting the CTMU to large crowds is that the CTMU is difficult to get right, and presenting it incorrectly is almost certain without years of familiarity and practice. One reason I haven’t attempted it yet myself is because I’ve looked back on CTMU notes I made merely a year ago and can see errors in my understanding. Other reasons are to do with how Discord debating has changed the way I view myself. Before I did it, I had a very overconfident estimation of how well I can prove someone else wrong (assuming they are in the wrong) and communicate my ideas with the CTMU under my belt. Attempting this and listening to myself afterwards has caused me to pull back (from doing it more publicly).

The reason I’ve felt prompted to write this is because of Omni’s call to Jay Dyer to talk about the CTMU. This is far less hazardous than calling an atheist talk show to present it, since Jay and many of his fans are already familiar with it as well as sympathetic to it. But I do disagree with some things you said, Omni. If you like, we can talk about it and strategize our approach.

What I want to recommend and emphasize here is, for the time being, CTMU debates should be kept on Discord. It’s a perfectly good place to discover where you are wrong as well as obtain sound clips for YouTube content.

Here are a few of the times I’ve called into various atheist talk shows.

In 2022 I called The Line to present a Reality Principle based proof of God (I am the first caller). I’m not proud of it, as I didn’t have any practice. It was my first ever attempt. I hope it illustrates to you that you should have your words prepared beforehand. So, my recommendation for you is, get plenty of practice. Doing this allows you to have the headspace to remain calm and humble when your opponent is getting heated. When I made this call, I wasn't very humble. Again, I did NOT mention the CTMU or Chris Langan. This would only make things harder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjTy6GhdlCw

On another occasion I called The Atheist Experience to give a design argument for God. When I noticed how little the hosts really cared, I felt apathetic at the thought to continue calling such programs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70pV3iBdmA

A couple of days ago I called The Line to present a design argument for God. It did not go to plan, as the hosts weren’t really wanting an argument in the form of syllogism, but preferred a faster-paced style of query and discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyiRQd7pdTo

Notice that the atheists reacting to me in the comments find excuses that are not very impressive, most of which merely declare me to be wrong without argument. It’s just one cope-fuelled dismissal after another. I mentioned Bernardo Kastrup, but not the CTMU or Chris Langan, which would have made things more complicated (Kastrup's model of global reality is simpler).

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