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Rock Singing Success

Public • 72 • Free

27 contributions to Rock Singing Success
"Welcome Welcome" (original hard rock song)
Here's a demo version of a song off the first hard rock album I've written entirely myself. I seem to remember some song by the Silent Still that had a similar theme in terms of welcoming people to their show. https://youtu.be/7e9RaBNltYA
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New comment 2d ago
"Welcome Welcome" (original hard rock song)
0 likes • 2d
Welcome. Welcome to the community! Fun song with a cool bass line. It sounds like in the chorus on "To" from the line "To the show" that you're pulling chest to reach that A note. It gives the line a certain energy that works. Is that a tough note for you to reach in chest? How long have you been singing?
The Jon Oliva Story and a question
Jon Oliva is one of the most underrated vocalists in metal. He fronted Savatage, which eventually metamorphosized into the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Savatage never made any money and they were actually three million dollars in debt at some point during the 1980s. The band was either going to have to quit. They were a classic metal band at a time when glam metal ruled and thrash metal bands were the wild, rebellious upstarts who were going against the grain in a decidedly non-glam style. Savatage didn't fit into the glam or the thrash scene. They had the songs, but they weren't what was trendy at the time and they never got radio play in the 80s when they were trying to break through. They ascended as far as opening for Dio and Ronnie James was quite impressed by the way Jon Oliva sang, but Dio was skeptical that Oliva's voice would actually make it through the entire tour. When Oliva was asked how he sang, he said: "You know how you yell when you're at a football team and then team you like scores a touchdown? That's how I sing." Despite having no formal training or a solid understanding of what he was doing, the man was so damn talented that he developed into an amazingly versatile singer who had a knack for being able to imitate almost any vocalist. Paul O'Neill was the man who stepped in when Atlantic Records was going to drop Savatage and said let me produce this band. I have a vision for them. That was 1987 and the first Savatage album O'Neill produced was Hall Of The Mountain King from that year. Their successive albums showed a distinctly progressive metal direction to their sound, with many songs that transcended the metal sub-genre of rock and at times, went beyond what would even typically qualify as rock. They'd have a totally heavy metal song on an album that would be followed by a song that sounded like it belonged in a Broadway musical. With each album, Savatage began to get closer to the project that Paul O'Neill had in mind for them - to turn them into the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. He was gradually getting that band acclimated to playing and writing in that style.
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New comment 2d ago
The Jon Oliva Story and a question
1 like • 2d
@Draven Grey That's helpful. Thank you.
Low Notes: The Forbidden Realm In Rock Vocals
Why do you suppose it is that whenever somebody wants to talk about what impressive range a lead vocalist has, they almost unanimously praise the vocalists who can sing the highest notes i.e. , notes in the 5th and 6th octave, while they all but ignore the whole other side of the spectrum? There have been vocalists who sing extremely high notes with beautiful tone and it's a great thing, but so many others have sung high just for the sake of it and it's no more musical than a guitarist who thinks he's going to be praised as the next Eddie Van Halen or Yngwie Malmsteen without realizing that those musicians aren't unique because they could play fast just for the sake of speed. Those players became legends because they were unique and because they could play with great touch, tone and feel. They had impeccable intonation. Their vibrato was a thing of beauty....and yes, they could play as fast as they wanted to, but they were at their most exciting when they used speed in moderation. To place speed as a goal first and foremost and think that if you just run scales and play mindless repeating licks with no melody, that's nothing more than a fast way to get nowhere. The vocal equivalent is to squeeze out the highest notes a vocalist can possibly muster, at the expense of being screechy. It amounts to valuing quantity over quality. Without great tone, does it really matter if you can sing a G5? Axl Rose still sings high notes, but do they sound good to you? I'd rather hear him take his lines down an octave and sing them in chest than to hear him use that Mickey Mouse tone. Robert Plant did his best to sing the highest notes he could possibly crank out and guess what? At the ripe old age of 32, Robert Plant's career as a hard rock lead vocalist was over. His doctors told him that if he continued to scream out notes the way he had been, before much longer, his larynx would be reduced to rubble. Suddenly, singing a softer, lighter type of rock seemed appealing to him.
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New comment 5d ago
0 likes • 5d
@Draven Grey Yes, higher notes convey an emotion of more energy, but high energy emotions, like any other emotions, are relative. What would happiness feel like if sadness didn't exist? Each one makes it possible for the other to be felt way more powerfully. If a vocalist wants a whole song to be high energy, and sings high all the way through it, then hopefully there will be songs on that album where the vocalist sings in a lower range, because emotions are only perceived as high energy because when compared to most emotions, they are relatively energetic. Now, if every song on the album tries to be high energy, at some point, the effect is going to be diluted because without lower energy parts, there is no reference point. Without a reference point, you can't create contrast. A recording with a lot of dynamic range has both very soft and very loud parts. If I think of that concept in terms of pitch and a vocalist with good dynamic range will sing both low notes and high ones. If the vocalist stays at a very high pitch for a long time, it becomes fatiguing to the ear. Listeners become numb to the emotion it is trying to get across. It ceases to sound impressive and move people emotionally because the really high energy parts have become the norm. The only way to avoid that is to have dynamics. That requires contrast. That's why I think singers who don't utilize the lower spectrum of their range are really missing out on their ability to pull on the heartstrings of their audience. They're limiting themselves. Regarding the idea of relaxing into high notes and relaxing into distortion: Being able to relax into distortion sounds like a nice goal and it's something I'd like to be able to do. Yesterday you mentioned hardcore bark being approximately 90% of what Phil Anselmo does live in Pantera. Is the hardcore bark the one exception to distortion that cannot be relaxed into? I'm asking because based on the explanation, it doesn't sound like it can be created in a relaxing way.
1 like • 5d
@Draven Grey Excellent! Thank you for the insight. It seems to me that relaxing into distortion takes a matter of developing the coordination to use the muscles you want to use in the most efficient way possible, so that there is no wasted energy. .
No Quarter: Phil Anselmo's Influence And Beyond
In heavy metal there are two main eras: Before Pantera and after Pantera Phil Anselmo set the standard for what a modern metal vocalist could be. Phil could seemingly do it all. He could hit Rob Halford type high notes. He could sing in the really gritty hyper-compressed style of James Hetfield. He had the physicality of Henry Rollins of Black Flag and Rollins Band. He could even sing and make it sound pretty, like he did in the intro to Cemetery Gates. Then something unusual happened. Phil cut his hair. As a heavy metal vocalist in that era, that's somethin' ya just didn't do! Then he stopped singing the soaring high notes like he did at the end of Cemetery Gates or in Shattered, also from the Cowboys From Hell album. You didn't hear him sing pretty anymore. Anselmo was seemingly on top of the world, but his life was becoming anything but pretty....and it was about to get a whole lot more trying. The destination Phil's body was headed for was sheer misery. Phil had asked no quarter and given no quarter during the early days of Pantera. As he put it: "I would either dive into the waiting crowd or into the waiting concrete. It made no difference. I would attack! When we're young we've got a tendency to think we're invincible. When you're hopped up on a lot of booze, that tendency grows. Phil had paid a serious price for his dives off the P.A. system and the bill was just now coming due. The cost was: Two blown out discs and degenerative disc disease. His doctor told him he needed surgery or it would surely get worse. Phil asked what the recovery time would be and when the doctor told him it could be a year or more, Phil replied: "I've got gigs to play." The 90s had been a tough time for heavy metal. Even legends like Judas Priest and Dio were relegated to playing venues that weren't even half the size of what they had played in the 80s. Grunge and alternative were the anti-virtuosic trend , but Pantera was a band full of musicians who could play their asses off! Darrell Abbott is widely considered the greatest lead guitarist of his time.
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New comment 6d ago
No Quarter: Phil Anselmo's Influence And Beyond
1 like • 7d
@Draven Grey I don't think Phil is just the inspiration for the screaming styles; I really think he and Pantera as a whole formed the template for what a modern metal band could be. Think of how many bands didn't just take influence from them but outright ripped them off. Have you heard the vocal style on songs like "I'm Broken" or "The Great Southern Trendkill"? It is absolute screaming. The Great Southern Trendkill album opens with a scream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVREKUVRoEQ&list=OLAK5uy_nYG5pipbLt_-vJ6YKa1gqCPEBHeFao7Bs Here is "I'm Broken" from their 1994 album Far beyond Driven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-V8kYT1pvE Would you say that in the chorus when Phil recites the lyrics "I'm Broken" that is a pure false cord scream or is it possibly something else? I think the whole song is false cord screams, probably mixed with some fry screams, but I'd love to know forn sure. I really believe Pantera saved heavy metal for the 90s. Even metal legends had been relegated to less than arena status. The grunge and alternative trend was so strong at the time that even Metallica lightened up in 1994! Meanwhile, Pantera bucked the trend, making their most abrasive album to date - Far Beyond Driven. It debuted at #1 on the Billboard charts, an astounding achievement for an album that sonically abrasive and so damn heavy. It's not a surprise to me that Pantera would go on to get ripped off left and right. There literally was nobody else in metal at that time who could draw 15,000 or 20,000 people to a show with their name alone in such an extreme type of metal. I saw Pantera at Ozzfest '97 and the effect they had on the crowd was intense. The audience were near rioting, but not out of anger. The music just made them crazy! I'm aware of the band Exhorder from Louisiana. Possibly they invented the groove metal sound. Possibly. But Pantera mastered it!
1 like • 6d
@Draven Grey That's helpful! Thank you.
Describe That Singer - Weekly Game?
I have an idea that might be a fun thing fpr the community to do. When I was growing up, my best friend's two favorite bands were Black Sabbath and Molly Hatchet. I hadn't listened to Molly Hatchet for a long time until recently, when I became intrigued about if I could imitate Danny Joe Brown's voice (Molly Hatchet lead vocalist). He's got a very, very distinct sound! I tried one of their popular songs titled "Dreams I'll Never See". I hadn't heard it it in so long that I was amazed at just how unique of a sound Danny Joe Brown had. I was able to come fairly close to approximating his sound except for one thing he does that I don't know what it is. It occurred to me that it would be good for everyone i the community if we all got as good as we can at being able to listen to a vocalist and then describe what makes them sound the way they do. What if once a week, a singer were chosen and the community members who are interested could write down what elements make up that singer's sound. If you want to make it a game, maybe Draven could evaluate the week's entries and see which post described what makes up that singer's sound the best. The game idea is just an option if people think that would make it more fun. . An entry into this game might look something like this: Danny Joe Brown of Molly Hatchet Danny Joe's sound is unique in rock because he has a lot of country music sound in his voice, but he's more than strictly country. I listened to him sing Dreams I'll Never See. He uses a lot of pharyngeal color as well as nasality mixed with twang to get his trademark sound. His palate is rarely raised. It's usually quite low, to bring out that pharyngeal tone. A lot of his placement is fairly far back, although he does move it more forward on some of the more high notes That one thing I couldn't quite figure out is whatever he's doing starting at 1.20 into the song. He does it on the words that are in all capital letters. So, starting at 1:20 into the YouTube video I linked:
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Describe That Singer  - Weekly Game?
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Russell Spear
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19points to level up
@russell-spear-5493
Singing is my priority in life. I want to become the best rock singer I can become. My two biggest influences are Stevie Nicks and Blackie Lawless.

Active 8h ago
Joined Aug 16, 2024
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